[Poll] Collaborative mod development

[ImpassIve]

I'm just curious, is it possible to make some kind of collaborative project in our small community?
That means what such a mod would be developed not only by a one-two users, but anyone can take part in making the mod.

To be honest, I don't have any experience in distributed developing, but today it is not very difficult to share/synchronise files of any kind over internet: you can manually download files or use Dropbox to make shared folders etc.
If it is necessary, specialised websites (maybe, something like github?) can be used.

But in this case, the main resource is people.
Even just a joint discussion or proposals of new ideas can often help in the development of a mod.

At this moment I don't have any particular ideas about future mod. I just wanna discuss this.

P.S. English is not my native language, sorry for some mistakes.

[Evropi]

I actually know some Lua myself. I've written a couple of ROBLOX scripts, though now I use Linux so AFAIK I can no longer play ROBLOX, and it no longer works on my Windows installation either (for whatever reason).

I think that first, the Lua functionality of Knights should be extensively documented. In a lot of detail.

I personally prefer the Mercurial (http://mercurial.selenic.com) (also known as 'Hg', from the chemical notation) Version Control System. It has by far the lowest learning curve of all Decentralised Version Control Systems (DVCS) and it is very popular and just as fast as git. It is also a hell of a lot more cross-platform that Git or Bazaar (especially Git, which requires some 500 MB of UNIX utilities under Windows).

Also, GitHub's graphical tools are completely broken! Seriously, the Windows one at least is awful and doesn't even let me do a local commit under Windows XP. Bitbucket (https://bitbucket.org) is definitely the best Mercurial host out there.

It might be something of an overkill though, but this all depends on just how far Knights can be modded of course. A lot of open source developers use Wuala (http://www.wuala.com) to co-operate on projects which is a bit like Dropbox, but with a hell of a lot more privacy (Dropbox can look through anything at anytime!) and an integrated version control system. Most importantly, it allows you to have 'public' folders that anyone can look through.

That's your options. I'd go with Mercurial myself. Hg Init (http://hginit.com) is a really nice and quick Mercurial tutorial by well-known software engineer Joel Spolsky (writes the popular blog 'Joel on Software').

Regardless of all that... the extensibility of Knights is the key here. I'm not nearly as innovative as Stephen or the guy with the odd name who originally made Knights on the Amiga, and don't know the ways in which the gameplay of Knights can expand beyond the point it is currently at.
That will determine the future extensibility of the  game.

But for now, I'm not sure if all these systems are necessary! You can just as well send compressed archives back and forth. Still, you should use a VCS to get its benefits, even if you're working on your own. It all depends on the scale. The rule of thumb is, if you've written over 1000 lines of code, you should already be using VCS. Unless it's 1000 lines of XML, of course, hehehe. ;)

PS: Stephen, why are all link disabled, no matter in what way you format them?!

[ImpassIve]

Evropi

Thanks for the reply, I will consider your advice.

About documentation in knights.
Well, wiki provides some information but it is not enough in some cases.
However, you can use "Find in Files" feature (for example, using Notepad++) at your "knights_data" folder.
By examining "classic" and "tutorial" folders you can learn much about current lua system. Otherwise, there is a special topic on the forum where you can ask a question about it.

About current extensibility of Knights...
To sum up, you have considerable freedom in modifying things and tiles. You can freely add new elements to the game menu (but not to delete them, lol). But you have less control of knights, and much, much less control of monsters.

We are waiting (at least, I do) for 2 things right now:
1) Stephen already have made some changes to modding (in dev. versions of Knights), but we need declaration of Knights version 22 to see those features ingame.
2) That would be really cool if he would implement his Monster Proposal. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough time right now...

PS: Stephen, why are all link disabled, no matter in what way you format them?!

As far as I know, that is an anti-spam measure (yeah, there were lots of spammers). As soon as you post enough messages on the forum (don't remember exact number, maybe 10?) you will be able to post links and adjust your forum profile...

[Stephen]

Regarding links: You need to reach 3 posts then your links will work properly. This was an anti-spam thing as Impassive said.

Regarding documentation: Yes, I agree the documentation could be better. The existing pages are more of a "reference manual" than a detailed guide. (Even so, it still took quite a long time to write!)

Please note, I can give people Trac accounts if you want. This would allow you to put your own pages on the wiki, for example to describe mods you are working on. You could even help improve the Lua documentation if you want. Just let me know and I'll create an account for you...

Regarding Knights v.22: Yes, unfortunately I still haven't had much time to work on that. Hopefully I'll be able to get something done next month...

[ImpassIve]

Please note, I can give people Trac accounts if you want. This would allow you to put your own pages on the wiki, for example to describe mods you are working on. You could even help improve the Lua documentation if you want. Just let me know and I'll create an account for you...

Ah, that would be interesting for me.
Unfortunately, I don't know English enough well, so writing articles would be hard for me.

However, I might try to translate current "lua" section into Russian, if you are interested in that =)

[Stephen]

Ah, that would be interesting for me.

I created a Trac account for you. I sent you a PM with the details.

Unfortunately, I don't know English enough well, so writing articles would be hard for me.

However, I might try to translate current "lua" section into Russian, if you are interested in that =)

I think your English is very good.

You are welcome to add Russian translations to the wiki, or make any other improvements you like. Don't worry about "breaking" anything -- we can always revert to previous versions if necessary.

If anyone else wants a Trac account, let me know.

[Evropi]

Weeeellll, what we need right now really is ideas. ;D

Lots of 'em. Make a Trac page on which everyone can dump their ideas (maybe even you, Stephen, if you don't want mod x to be a part of the game!).

[ImpassIve]

Weeeellll, what we need right now really is ideas. ;D

Lots of 'em. Make a Trac page on which everyone can dump their ideas (maybe even you, Stephen, if you don't want mod x to be a part of the game!).

Well, I will be very busy in these 2 days.
Btw, we (I and Romanio) have made a little list of possible features to add, it consists of 16 points...
I can't upload it right now because it was written in Russian, not English... And, to be honest, there is nothing extraordinary in it.

IMHO, we need a new gamemode. But unlike my first attempt in this area ("Heroes" mod) it should be oriented on multiplayer gameplay.
"Capture the flag", "King of the hill", "Kill an invisible man"? I don't know. Here should be suggestions.

P.S. It is better to use something like this IRC channel to discuss in online-mode:
http://www.knightsgame.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=215.0
The only disadvantage of it is what you can't view history of the discussion. So, you can't store some to-do list in there.

(I have linked it to my Jabber account, so as soon as I am at home - I will be online in there)

[K9]

I voted 'other' because I sort of fit in several categories:

First, I don't have enough spare time to solidly commit, but my desire to help is strong.
If you find one of your projects could finish with a boost of help, I can hopefully join in to test, work on graphics, sounds, descriptions/text, etc, but my Lua skills are not good yet for programming assistance.

If you stall on ideas, I'm always quick for that.
You and Romanio have so far said very good game ideas, that will be fun to see.

Thank you for your suggestion and Stephen's support.

Plus Evropi, I learned much about vcs and collaboration, I will study your suggestions for my day by day job usage.

[ImpassIve]

Well, here is those ideas.
Note, what that is not a some kind of structured list. That is just a random collection of ideas (as stated in the title of file).

Also, I can't guarantee what all ideas can be implemented in current release of knights. We haven't thought about implementation much.

Fill free to pick, modify and use any ideas from the list, if you want.

P.S. As I have said before, "there is nothing extraordinary in it", but anyway...