Maybe someone will like this! (Pixel Art)

[MadByte]

Hi,
I know that the forum is somewhat dead these days, but I still wanted to share a small pixel art piece I made that began forming from an idea of
remaking the game (loosely, with some more modern day mechanics & improvements). I'm a bit into game development and coding as a hobby, mainly
working with LÖVE (Lua game framework), but I'm also trying to do my own pixel art from time to time - which led me to work on this out of nostalgia.



Maybe someone sometime will see it and like it.  ;)
cheers!

[Stephen]

I like it :) I think it's pretty good.

Did you play the original Knights?

How much is done? Just what we see in the screenshot or is there more?

Did you get anywhere with your remake or was it just an idea? A newer version of Knights with more modern day mechanics sounds like it could be fun.

[MadByte]

I like it :) I think it's pretty good.

Thanks, glad you like it. :)

Did you play the original Knights?

I did, on my fathers Amiga A1200. I was young when I played it, but it somewhat got stuck
in memory because that was the time I began tinkering with computers in general and I loved
playing this just singleplayer and exploring dungeons, not knowing what is waiting behind the
next door :) I loved the design of setting down a trap and some time later hearing it being
activated even when being quite a bit away from it. Stuff like that added a lot regarding the
tone and atmosphere of the game.

I tried the remake a couple years later (seems like I registered here in 2012)
and it feels pretty close to how I remember it. Unfortunately, I'm not really into playing against
other players over the internet, so I never used that aspect of the remake.

How much is done? Just what we see in the screenshot or is there more?

There are some more weapon sprite variations for combat and stuff, some knight sprites
and some more items but that's about it currently. I'm still working on it though.

Did you get anywhere with your remake or was it just an idea? A newer version of Knights with more modern day mechanics sounds like it could be fun.

Just an idea. I haven't really decided yet if I try my luck on this one. The fact that it would be a pretty
large project kinda holds me off a bit. But If I'd decide to work on a remake, I'd try to focus more on the
exploration and the ability to enjoy it alone or in coop with a friend or two instead of the vs type of
gameplay.
Multiplayer and vs gameplay shouldn't be left out though, since that's how most ppl played and
experienced it back in the day I assume :D

edit
And the game itself is basically made for two player combat, trapping doors and just having a chaotic
but fun experience.

[ImpassIve]

I know that the forum is somewhat dead these days

*Sounds of a zombie, rising from the grave*

I still wanted to share a small pixel art piece I made

Nice one! Although I wonder why there is a sword lying on the floor.
Is it somewhat special (e.g. large sword or zweihander) or is it because a knight is supposed to drop his default weapon when picking up another one, such as a hammer?

[MadByte]

*Sounds of a zombie, rising from the grave*

Gawd no, they always stand up again. :D
Good to see some new life sparking up!

Nice one! Although I wonder why there is a sword lying on the floor.
Is it somewhat special (e.g. large sword or zweihander) or is it because a knight is supposed to drop his default weapon when picking up another one, such as a hammer?

Thanks, and good catch.
Honestly, I didn't thought of that when drawing it ;D I think I forgot that knights won't drop their default weapon
when picking up something else (at least I believe that's how it was? Didn't test it).

Dropping their default weapon might be an option, but why should they since everyone spawns with their own one. One
scenario might be zombies that spawn without a sword, they could pick it up when walking over it and use it for combat.

[K9]

I like your graphic style too based on that first room pic, would be interesting to see that as a set of icons plugged into Stephen's current game.  There were some details about doing the room designer and using custom graphics on this forum.  Gameplay mods via Lua are awesome as you may have noticed the existing plugins, they aren't necessarily for redesigning entire feel, but give you a nice chance to try out some things in the current structure that help you home in ideas toward your main goal.  Thank you for keeping the forum active and sharing about yourself..  btw I love the A1200, great machine!

[K9]

Hi,
I know that the forum is somewhat dead these days

My deep thoughts about the forum...

I never think of this forum as 'dead', it is actually very much alive (especially as long as Stephen wills it to be so).  To me, the forum is like a Dragon full of the wisdom and experience from meeting many adventurers.  It may find some large gaps in time to sleep or hibernate while waiting for the next traveler (old or young) to stubble across its path and reinvigorate the spirit of excitement it enjoys sharing.

[Stephen]

Did you play the original Knights?

I did, on my fathers Amiga A1200. I was young when I played it, but it somewhat got stuck
in memory because that was the time I began tinkering with computers in general and I loved
playing this just singleplayer and exploring dungeons, not knowing what is waiting behind the
next door :) I loved the design of setting down a trap and some time later hearing it being
activated even when being quite a bit away from it. Stuff like that added a lot regarding the
tone and atmosphere of the game.

Sounds cool. I remember first playing in the mid/late '90s, it must have not been long after the game first came out. We didn't have internet access at that time, but we got a bunch of the Aminet CDs and my brother started looking through the games on them. He found Knights and I was reluctant to try it out at first, but he persuaded me, and, well, here we are today! :)

There are some more weapon sprite variations for combat and stuff, some knight sprites
and some more items but that's about it currently. I'm still working on it though.

If you ever want to get your sprites into the game, you can probably do something using the modding system. I think you can just create a new mod as a lua file, have it "require" the "classic" module, then you will have access to the "classic" table with all the graphics in it. You can just overwrite them with your graphics instead. Then anyone loading your mod would get the new graphics instead of the old.

(This of course wouldn't put in the lighting effects that you have done -- which are quite cool by the way -- but it would put the sprites themselves into the game.)

Let us know if you want to try it, I or someone else can probably help with the details.

Did you get anywhere with your remake or was it just an idea? A newer version of Knights with more modern day mechanics sounds like it could be fun.

Just an idea. I haven't really decided yet if I try my luck on this one. The fact that it would be a pretty
large project kinda holds me off a bit. But If I'd decide to work on a remake, I'd try to focus more on the
exploration and the ability to enjoy it alone or in coop with a friend or two instead of the vs type of
gameplay.

I did briefly think about doing a rewrite of Knights in Lua. Unfortunately it would probably be too big of a project to actually take on, but it would have certain advantages, like making it easier for people to contribute changes for example (having a big C++ codebase kind of puts people off I think).

We can dream I suppose :)

I think if you did want to make some kind of single player version you would have to focus on the puzzles (like the gnome books) and the exploration aspect. I once tried to make a dungeon full of zombies (just to see what would happen) and it wasn't that much fun, basically you just slog through rooms full of monsters, until one kills you, then you respawn, rinse and repeat. It wouldn't make for a fun single player experience (unless you redesigned the combat mechanics I guess). But the exploration and puzzle aspects could work in a single player or co-op mode I think.

[MadByte]

I like your graphic style too based on that first room pic, would be interesting to see that as a set of icons plugged into Stephen's current game.

Yeah I could try that for sure. I still have a lot of assets to rework, but this should work quite well since my sprites have the same size as the classic sprites. Not sure about the lights and stuff I added, I feel like the overall look of my sprites is pretty dependent on the lights and subtle shadows I added to it.

There were some details about doing the room designer and using custom graphics on this forum.  Gameplay mods via Lua are awesome as you may have noticed the existing plugins, they aren't necessarily for redesigning entire feel, but give you a nice chance to try out some things in the current structure that help you home in ideas toward your main goal.

I couldn't really find any API documentation for the lua stuff and I believe the changes I have in mind wouldn't be easily doable with mods as well. I usually tinker around with simple prototype builds for gameplay ideas like the movement etc, at least for me this seems to be a faster way to test stuff. :)
I wanted to try some different movement ideas like 8-directional movement, but I believe this wouldn't work that well. Another idea would be free movement with the knight following the mouse. Seems like a pretty significant change, but I'd like to try it before saying that it wouldn't work out.

Thank you for keeping the forum active and sharing about yourself..  btw I love the A1200, great machine!

Ah I did nothing, but thanks. & yes, its the only Amiga machine I ever had a chance to try but I loved it. A lot of great games released for it & I won't forget the countless hours I spent browsing CDs for demos and awesome PD games.

I never think of this forum as 'dead', it is actually very much alive (especially as long as Stephen wills it to be so).  To me, the forum is like a Dragon full of the wisdom and experience from meeting many adventurers.  It may find some large gaps in time to sleep or hibernate while waiting for the next traveler (old or young) to stubble across its path and reinvigorate the spirit of excitement it enjoys sharing.

That's a really inspiring view on this. And it seems like you're right too, judging by my post receiving so many replies in such a short amount of time. I honestly thought maybe someone will see this in the next couple months or so  ::) Good thing maybe that there was a bug with the forum which had me writing a mail to Stephen :D

[MadByte]

[...]. I remember first playing in the mid/late '90s, it must have not been long after the game first came out. We didn't have internet access at that time, but we got a bunch of the Aminet CDs and my brother started looking through the games on them. He found Knights and I was reluctant to try it out at first, but he persuaded me, and, well, here we are today! :)

yeah, the CDs. Big part of the experience back then, forgotten today. I think the closest to this today might be itch.io. A lot of cool free indie games on there.
Glad your brother was so stubborn, otherwise there might never been any PC version of the game. :)

If you ever want to get your sprites into the game, you can probably do something using the modding system. I think you can just create a new mod as a lua file, have it "require" the "classic" module, then you will have access to the "classic" table with all the graphics in it. You can just overwrite them with your graphics instead. Then anyone loading your mod would get the new graphics instead of the old.

(This of course wouldn't put in the lighting effects that you have done -- which are quite cool by the way -- but it would put the sprites themselves into the game.)

Let us know if you want to try it, I or someone else can probably help with the details.

May will, but I'll first need to get some more graphics done. Progress is slow since I work full time, but I'll get there eventually.

I did briefly think about doing a rewrite of Knights in Lua. Unfortunately it would probably be too big of a project to actually take on, but it would have certain advantages, like making it easier for people to contribute changes for example (having a big C++ codebase kind of puts people off I think).

We can dream I suppose :)

Yeah, I love lua because it's really simple to understand and straight forward to use. Might not be the fastest option performance-wise (especially compared to C++), but for a game like Knights it should be plenty enough.

I think if you did want to make some kind of single player version you would have to focus on the puzzles (like the gnome books) and the exploration aspect. I once tried to make a dungeon full of zombies (just to see what would happen) and it wasn't that much fun, basically you just slog through rooms full of monsters, until one kills you, then you respawn, rinse and repeat. It wouldn't make for a fun single player experience (unless you redesigned the combat mechanics I guess). But the exploration and puzzle aspects could work in a single player or co-op mode I think.

I think I'd need to make big changes to the classic version like a new movement system. Also the interaction system feels dated and not very user-friendly nowadays. These extra buttons for interactions would be a point I'd like to get rid of - maybe by adding controller support and some sort of radial menu? dunno.
I also thought about changing the movement system significantly but I fear the result would be a game not really feeling like the classic game anymore. Some changes are good, too big changes may ruin it.
Puzzles would be good to focus on, as well as good level design with lots of different content.
There is a game called "Catacomb Kids" that has some gameplay elements I'd think could work really well in a game like (my imaginary version of) Knights. Here is a video.
It has a procedural generated dungeon with lots of traps and things that can kill you, but also some puzzles and stuff. Not a perfect fit, but I'd think of it as a inspiration for dungeon exploration gameplay. I would want my imaginary version of knights be less hardcore though - without first death game over and things like that, especially for casual gameplay with a friend or two.

As you say - we can dream :)

edit.

I tried to reimplement my graphics into some of the screenshots on the site. Still a lot of work to do, especially with more unique ground tiles and broken wood stuff like the doors.

[ImpassIve]

I couldn't really find any API documentation for the lua stuff

There used to be a documentation on trac, but most of it seems to be lost:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170622125501/https://www.knightsgame.org.uk/trac/
https://web.archive.org/web/20160826130624/http://www.knightsgame.org.uk/trac/wiki/lua
It seems nowadays most of the information can be obtained only by looking at implementation of other mods (especially default ones) and/or game sources... or asking questions on the forum! =)